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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |

Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
42
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Posted - 2014.07.29 09:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
I agree that the Third Party Policies needs to be updated, especially considering that it's supposed to be the official guidelines for third party developers. Another thing that hasn't been updated is the cache scraping section:
Quote:We recognize that some players have engaged in cache scraping in the past, and we want to be clear this practice is not permitted. That said, unless there is an extreme case (i.e., cache scraping combined with other EULA violations), we will not penalize players who have engaged in this practice prior to 15 April 2013. Now that we have made our intent and policy clear, we may, in our sole discretion, deliver appropriate penalties for players that engage in cache scraping after 15 April 2013 (including temporary or permanent bans). In addition, we also may consider eliminating the cache to eliminate this practice and for performance reasons.
...which clearly says that cache scraping is now a bannable offense. However, it is not currently considered a bannable offense as the devs have said in forum posts, and evident by the continued existence of many popular sites and programs that use cache scraping, yet CCP hasn't updated their policies with this stance. Some consistency in the published rules would be nice, especially those that concern whether an account can be banned or not. |

Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
45
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Posted - 2014.07.29 11:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Third time in a week I have to post this quote GÇö is this some kind of epidemic? GM Horse wrote:The only out-of-game services that may be sold for ISK are directly EVE related web services, such as killboard hosting, ventrilo/teamspeak servers, corporation website hosting, and such. No, you may not get your mate to wash your car for ISK, even if he will wear a EVE t-shirt in the process.  I wouldn't call it an epidemic when people can't find a five-year-old GM quote in an obscure thread. It also doesn't mention the sale of spreadsheets, which is clearly allowed now. |

Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
45
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Posted - 2014.07.29 11:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Not in regards to RMT, no. EVE-related services have been allowed since roughly forever and do not count as GÇ£real-life currency or servicesGÇ¥. What's allowed isn't the point, it's that we have to search through five years of CCP forum posts to find out. And that the official document about it, Third Party Policies, is just flat-out wrong. |

Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
46
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Posted - 2014.07.29 11:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:What's allowed isn't the point, it's that we have to search through five years of CCP forum posts to find out. And that the official document about it, Third Party Policies, is just flat-out wrong. No, it's not flat-out wrong. It is just not giving you every last detail (because CCP likes to reserve the right to interpret the rules and give players a flood of rubber paragraphs to abuse) but instead conveys a very simple and entirely accurate message: you may not RMT. Tell me how this quote from the Third Party Policies:
Quote:Now that we have made our intent and policy clear, we may, in our sole discretion, deliver appropriate penalties for players that engage in cache scraping after 15 April 2013 (including temporary or permanent bans). isn't wrong. |

Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
46
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Posted - 2014.07.29 12:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:Tell me how this quote from the Third Party Policies: Quote:Now that we have made our intent and policy clear, we may, in our sole discretion, deliver appropriate penalties for players that engage in cache scraping after 15 April 2013 (including temporary or permanent bans). isn't wrong. In what way is it wrong? Stating that cache scraping is not permitted and is a bannable offense doesn't strike you as wrong? You know that cache scraping is currently allowed? |

Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
46
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Posted - 2014.07.29 12:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Do you have a source for this? This is the most recent CCP response on the issue. And it is obviously contradictory with what is written in the Third Party Policies. |

Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
46
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Posted - 2014.07.29 12:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:This is the most recent CCP response on the issue. So the 3PP is entirely accurate: it is not allowed, and they will use their discretion to hand out warnings and bans. Did you even read the link I posted? It says:
CCP Peligro wrote:In the meantime, CCP confirms that we will only impose penalties on cache scraping if used in connection with other illegal activities in the game (i.e., botting). We will not take action against cache scraping for other uses. |

Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
46
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Posted - 2014.07.29 12:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Derrick Miles wrote:This is the most recent CCP response on the issue. And it is obviously contradictory with what is written in the Third Party Policies. You mean the Third Party Policy revised five months AFTER that statement was issued. That therefore supersedes any previous rulings on cache scraping? That Third Party Policy is the one you are trying to claim is wrong? There is no date at all on the Third Part Policy and the statement was issued after the date it references as the cutoff for cache scraping being against the rules. |

Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
46
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Posted - 2014.07.29 13:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Derrick Miles wrote: There is no date at all on the Third Part Policy and the statement was issued after the date it references as the cutoff for cache scraping being against the rules.
Other than you know, the date at the bottom of the Terms of Service stating when all those policies were revised, and affirmed. But hey, guess reading to the bottom was too hard for you. The Third Party Policies are not the same as The Terms of Service. But hey, I guess clicking on links is too hard for you. |

Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
46
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Posted - 2014.07.29 13:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
You know what, I give up. Never argue with idiots, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. |

Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
46
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Posted - 2014.07.29 13:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:TL;DR?
Don't RMT, or the GM Team will spank you. Use best judgement and don't be dumb.
Long version?
Trading your in game stuff or ISK for out of game currency or services is bad, and the GM Team will spank you.
We make exceptions for this, such as people paying for killboard hosting, or commissioning other players for forum signatures or artwork, because these are services that are directly related to EVE Online and are something that enriches both the game and community.
It's a solid rule, but CCP will always use our own judgement and discretion on a case by case basis, the same as with every other aspect of our policies.
You guys are far too creative and way too clever for us to have a black and white, do or die policy. There needs to be some flexibility when dealing with edge cases and oddball situations that come up.
Thanks for the response. Could you comment on whether cache scraping is allowed or not? |

Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
1864
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Posted - 2014.08.16 05:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Pay attention, and read the WHOLE thing, including the words, "in our sole discretion". Don't just interpret it the way you want to in order to create a manufactured controversy, ignoring important parts of the clause. Gee, thanks for resurrecting this one.
Let me boil it down for you. CCP's third party policies says that cache scraping is not allowed and CCP Peligro says they won't do anything about it if you are cache scraping. |

Derrick Miles
EVENumbers
2149
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Posted - 2014.08.18 12:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
To be fair, the low and high prices seem to be absolutes and aren't anywhere near as useful as a high buy price and low sell price, which is what you can get from cache scraped data. I'm all for expanding CREST functionality until it can replace the need for the API and the cache, but it still needs more functionality to be able to compare with the current crowd-sourced cache-scraped databases. |
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